Ugly froes and wooden handles

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Martin Pansch
Posts: 312
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Young America, MN

Ugly froes and wooden handles

Unread post by Martin Pansch » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:18 pm

I had someone ask me to make a few froes. They didn't want them forged though. The wanted a ground blade, a chunk of pipe for a socket and the whole thing MIG welded together. I did it and made a few solid tools but boy were they ugly.
Froes resized.jpg
Froes resized.jpg (277 KiB) Viewed 2718 times
A few of them needed handles. I had some ash that had been sitting around drying for maybe 20 years or so. A 3 TPI Lennox blade on the bandsaw and the 6" joiner ripped them down to dimension pretty fast.
Froes rough cutting handles.jpg
Froes rough cutting handles.jpg (348.86 KiB) Viewed 2718 times
I might have salved my feeling towards the ugly blades by playing with the lathe a little on the handles.
Froes with handles 13FEB2017.jpg
Froes with handles 13FEB2017.jpg (241.81 KiB) Viewed 2718 times
I took the opportunity turn a few large file handles too for a few beast mode files I got last year. I still have to press the ferrules on to them though.
Ash file handles 13FEB2017.JPG
Ash file handles 13FEB2017.JPG (356.61 KiB) Viewed 2718 times
Only got 2 1/2 done before tragedy struck, I broke a belt.
In Soviet Russia.jpg
In Soviet Russia.jpg (335.18 KiB) Viewed 2718 times
It could be worse though. As Yakov Smirnoff would say, "In Soviet Russia, belt breaks you!"

I do have a question though for any of you that might be big wood turners. Is there a quick and easy way to turn a piece down to be a nice tight fit for a ferrule? I just slowly turned them down checking every micro-gnats but with a caliper. I got a tight fit but it took the majority of the time per handle. My mind keeps turning over tools I could try making to speed it up but thought I would check to see if someone knew a trick or two.

madmodifier
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:56 pm
Location: Mounds View, MN

Re: Ugly froes and wooden handles

Unread post by madmodifier » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:06 am

Looks good Martin! Why did he want a static handle vs one that would break down?

Ben

Martin Pansch
Posts: 312
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Young America, MN

Re: Ugly froes and wooden handles

Unread post by Martin Pansch » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:44 am

Hi Ben,

Thanks for the compliment but that big ugly MIG and pipe socket keep looking at me. Forged one just look better in my opinion.

The handles are removable, just in a different way that if it was a tapered socket/handle. The handle goes in through the back of the socket (i.e. the blunt side of the blade) and a lag bolt and washer go into the handle from the other side. The bolt both acts as a wedge to expand the handle and, with the washer, pulls the handle tight down into the socket. So you can break it down but will need a wrench.

If it think about it I'll take a picture of the washer and bolt in place and post it here for a clearer idea.

As for the why... After making a few semi-custom tools for a couple woodworkers I have come to the theory that they are influenced by a "school of thought." It might be someone they learned from or, more commonly for beginners, someone they saw a blog or YouTube from. At any rate they fully accept what that source tells them and it is difficult, if even possible, to convince them there might be another way to achieve their aims.

ron kuehn
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2016 2:37 am

Re: Ugly froes and wooden handles

Unread post by ron kuehn » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:37 am

Martin- To speed things up on the handles you might try using a parting tool to get close to the desired diameter of the tenon. By using the parting tool you are only working about 1/4" of the tenon instead of the whole thing. When that is done you can turn the rest of the tenon to the same diameter just using your eye as a gauge. Once you are close then start using the calipers to get the exact diameter you want.

Martin Pansch
Posts: 312
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Young America, MN

Re: Ugly froes and wooden handles

Unread post by Martin Pansch » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:28 pm

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the tip. Actually that is the process I settled on after doing a few of them. I just figured there was some sort of super-cool wood turning trick that was eluding me. There are a few ideas I had for tools to do the last turning down to size I thought of but that would only be worth it if I was doing bunches of them.

Some input I got from Skip Nordstrom off-line was:
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One thing to be aware of, Martin, is that if you use wood that isn’t completely dryed when you turn for ferrule, the wood will shrink as it drys, and the ferrule will become loose.  I suggest silicone adhesive.  Don’t know any other way to turn down for ferrules that what you described.
Skip
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Talking to Beau Battles at Beaumont's Quality Tools about something else he mentioned a furniture maker's trick of making the tenon a scoush oversized, sticking it in a kettle of hot sand to make it bone dry and shrink it, and drive it into the mortice. As the moisture creeps back into it it swells and tightens. I might try that at some point in the future for ferrules but it seems a lot of set up.

For this batch I just turned then as close as I could then relied on the slight expansion from driving them onto the file tang to hold the ferule in place.

I'll try to post some photos on the next post. I am wary though as I have been having issues of the Forum taking me back to the login page and making me lose my progress every time I hit submit. Discourages putting all my eggs in one basket.

Martin Pansch
Posts: 312
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Young America, MN

Re: Ugly froes and wooden handles

Unread post by Martin Pansch » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:13 pm

Files with handles 2.JPG
Files with handles 2.JPG (105.46 KiB) Viewed 2630 times
These are the handles I turned for files. The files with square cross-section tangs I just drilled the hole with several different sized bits to give sort of a stepped effect. The ones that have a flat cross section I drilled to just under the with of the tang, clamped the file in the vice so only the tang was exposed (careful not to damage file teeth), heated the tang up with a torch until it was a dull red, let it cool down a little bit, and drove the handles on (steady pressure is best but I did use some wacks with a wooden mallet as I am impatient). Getting the heat right is the trick. Lucian Avery demoed it a couple years ago at the Madness. You want just a little smoke when driving it on, no vast clouds of it or shooting flame (both fun but counterproductive).
Handle with washer and bolt.JPG
Handle with washer and bolt.JPG (96.19 KiB) Viewed 2630 times
This shot is of the washer and lag bolt and the location on the end of the froe handle where it would go to hold it in place. I am typically against lag bolts in end grain but I think the ash should stand up to it.

Phillip5505
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:20 pm

Re: Ugly froes and wooden handles

Unread post by Phillip5505 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:43 am

Martin you might want to look at a wood turning duplicator. I think it might work for what you want to do. I think it is what they use for things like railings when you need a lot of them.

Martin Pansch
Posts: 312
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Young America, MN

Re: Ugly froes and wooden handles

Unread post by Martin Pansch » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:29 am

Hi Phil

Thanks for the suggestion. A duplicator might be a little more than I want to spend to save a little time on a dozen file handles every 5 years or so. If I start making more froes of this style to sell it might be just the thing. I'll keep my eye on Craig's List.

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